(no subject)

[delicatale]

Okay, I really feel the need to ask this question here, because I am a bit worried about things I have read this afternoon...

In fic, do you prefer when characters use a condom or not? Say, in a Steve/Danny first time fic, what do you prefer? What do you think is more in character?

Please, do tell me. Any answer would be precious for my sanity, right now.

Comments

[tailoredshirt.livejournal.com]

Answering here for completeness, but yes, they would use a condom!

If they have the STD talk and/or get tested or whatever then fine, but otherwise I don't think either of them would be that reckless.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

See, this is how I think! I'm not saying there aren't times where things don't get fumbled and condoms aren't overlooked, but in a fairly straightforward first time, you'd want a condom...for all sorts of really obvious reasons!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thelostcity/]

While reading M/M fic, I prefer condoms, especially for a first-time fic, for penetration, but I prefer no condom for a blowjob (though pulling off or swallowing with no condom doesn't matter for me). If they're going no condom for penetration I like either the talk about it or a statement that they have talked about it (if it's not shown in the fic).

I think condom is more in-character. Especially since they've both slept with women in the past, which makes me think one or the other would whip out the condom without even thinking about it. They both strike me as practicing safe sex, and I'll be honest, I can't get past the thought of a guy getting a UTI for unprotected anal sex.

What have you read that makes you worried?

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I tend to be less anal (hurr hurr see what I did there) about it when it's oral sex, even though I do feel bad about writing reckless, condom-less blowjobs all the time. But it's just - hotter, whereas having either of them whip out a condom for penetrative sex can be written in a seamless way (I do not believe that nowadays people aren't used to it) and not disrupt the mood.

And, yes, see, that's the thing. They've both had multiple partners and they're both modern men, and I just can't imagine them not just taking one out along with the lube when they're going for it - at least at the beginning...

I have just read different ideas, from another part of the fandom, where people are more into condom-less sex, because it's fiction, so it doesn't matter.

[hobnailedboots.livejournal.com]

I think it's more ic for them to use a condom.

I could see Steve being all 'sex.now.never mind the details' and Danny all 'what? Are you crazy? Did you even attend health class?'.

In fic generally, I prefer it when a condom is used.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, I am not sure I agree with you on Steve being reckless like this - he is, after all, a military mind, very sharp and smart, and I'd think he wouldn't overlook it without a very good reason.

[ratherastory.livejournal.com]

I generally think condom. I can't see either Danny or Steve being that irresponsible, even in the heat of the moment. Safe sex seems like something that would come naturally to both of them: Steve because he's been all over the world, Danny because he's probably seen up close what can happen when you have unprotected sex.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

This.

[lunachickk.livejournal.com]

I would say in a first-time fic definitely, yes.

What were you reading that got you so spooked?

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

It just makes the most sense to me!

Just - somewhere else in the fandom, in other fandoms (not considering magical fandoms), where people think that condoms don't have to be mentioned because it's fiction, and it doesn't matter it's not real.

[kitmerlot1213.livejournal.com]

It really would make sense for them to use condoms especially because they were both recently sexually active with other partners. I think that both Steve and Danny would be extremely vigilant about using protection--it's in both of their characters.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I wholeheartedly agree.

[azziria.livejournal.com]

It's completely and utterly in character for both of them to use a condom for anal sex, at least until the relationship was very established. For oral I can live without the condom for the sake of the hotness :)

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm the same - I do keep on thinking about it, though, but I've never managed to write a blowjob with a condom in a hot way, it just...yeah. No.

I guess the real issue here is that I read things from people that sacrifice writing in character because it's fiction and they'll write no condoms because they like it better that way.

[souliesoul.livejournal.com]

Condoms yes. Sometimes there is a moment of 'but wait, safe sex!' when one isn't mentioned in fic. There are some fandoms where it would seem out of place, but this isn't one of them.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I get the same frown frown but wait where are the condoms when they're ignored. And if someone writes them going bareback and asking for it in a first time fic, without giving me solid background for why they'd act this way, I'll backbutton.

[sirona-gs.livejournal.com]

Oh, with condom, definitely, if it's a first-time.

ALSO HI, I AM BACK.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

That was never an issues when writing, this =D.

HAI OH I AM HAPPY YOU ARE. I re-read the bakery!au yesterday, and it made me miss you a lot. Also, want to write another ridiculously long and ridiculously ridiculous story with you.

[ember-firedrake.livejournal.com]

Jumping on the safe sex bandwagon here. I definitely see it as in-character, especially in first time fic, for there to be some mention of a condom for penetrative sex. (It's funny though, for the longest time my involvement in fandom tended to be in fandoms with magical/supernatural elements or with non-human participants, so the first time I got into a fandom where both members of my OTP were human it was like "oh, yeah")

I can overlook a lack of condom in established relationship pwps, mostly because I just work under the assumption that they had that talk "off-screen".

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I've been writing for so long in real life fandoms, the idea of 'use condoms -> have the talk -> go bareback' is firmly in my head. And with those two, it just makes more sense, anyway, in my opinion, for a large number of reasons they wouldn't just jump into bed and go bareback without a loooot of backstory that you better explain to me...Or you know, if you want them to be up against a wall all horny and unable to wait, well, they don't have to have penetrative sex, what is wrong with frottage? (although I have seen this more in this fandom - responsible sex/frottage/blowjobs/handjobs when no condoms than in any other I've been in before)

Yes, that definitely works!

[littlesumo.livejournal.com]

Yes, definitely yes

If they've been in a longer, committed relationship for a while and can trust each other to be clean, then without would be OK. But other than that not.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Right? It seems like the most logical answer, yet I've discovered parts of fandom where apparently, it doesn't matter. I am scared, Nina :(.

[alamo-girl80.livejournal.com]

For first times, I think condoms are just a smart default. Unless they're in dub-con or non-con situations, I don't see why they wouldn't use a rubber.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

They're my default, too, I don't even think of not including them...

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

Adding to the chorus of condom use for penetrative sex, especially if the relationship is new. I don't mind the lack of one in an established relationship, though.

Hope your sanity is doing okay. :D

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

My sanity is doing much, much better, thankfully! I have a fantastic flist!

[gottalovev.livejournal.com]

as they said :)

I have a fic that's about to go that has unprotected (het) sex between two partners (three in fact) and it makes me itchy. it's mentioned and there is a reason, but still. *frets*

I never wrote a blowjob with a condom, though. or read one for that matter. I would not know how to make it sexy :/

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Well, at least there is a reason! I know how it is, though, I get itchy when I don't write condoms in my stories (not that it happens often). It just comes so naturally to me...

Same. It's just hard to make it work, because everyone is used to not having condoms in blowjobs nowadays.

[lilibel.livejournal.com]

For first time, I think condoms are a must, at least in my book.
When it comes to established relationship, then it can become obsolete to use one.
For the in-between, i guess it's up to the writer to see if they are only seeing one another or if they have sex on the side of their burgeoning relationship.
I apply that for hetero couples too.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I apply it to both gay and heterosexual relationships, definitely!

[maab-connor.livejournal.com]

this is always such an interesting question. and i think that it's personal to the fandom and the character.

much as i am pro-bareback in fic - would the characters not use a condom on their first go? probably not. these are two guys who well aware of the world they're living in; two who are responsable and street savvy. i think that they would use protection the first time.

the flip side of that, of course, is that they're bleeding all over each other all the time ANYWAY, and that is a trope that i have used for many-a-fandom.

but for Steve and Danny, i think the first time would be safe. and then of course Steve goes all neanderthal and "mine" and they get tested and throw the condoms away... but that's later. ;-)

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I do find it a really interesting topic - if not a little scary at times XD.

[willow-fae-20.livejournal.com]

A little late to the discussion but I wanted to add my thoughts here too.

I prefer condoms are used. And I think it's well within both Steve and Danny's character to use them also. I feel like it's irresponsible story telling for an author to leave that out. Unless and until they get tested for STI's and decide/chose to be monogamous, at which time they can revisit the condom vs. no condom debate.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to see this is the common trend on my flist!

[stjarna1984.livejournal.com]

You probably know what I'm going to say anyway, but yeah, condoms until proven otherwise, definitely. If i don't write a condom being used, then that's only because in my head they've already had 'the talk' and it's all good.

Also, with H50, you have to think that they get tested a lot more often with all the blood transfusions they must need to treat bullet wounds etc. They probably get at least a hepatitis test every time they go to hospital to get patched up so they'd be very aware of their health in that respect.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

We wrote this talk to many times. So many tiiiiiiimes XD.

This is true - I should take this into account more.

[imaginarycircus.livejournal.com]

YES! They would use condoms, unless there is some very good reason for them not to use them, which I can't even think of.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

For a first time, I can't think of reasons either...

[forcellari.livejournal.com]

I absolutely think that Steve and Danny would use a condom for their first time. If it's not in the scene, my mind will fill in the blanks and assume they used one. I'm more jarred though when lube/prep isn't explicitly mentioned, because ouch.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, yes, that jars me incredibly hard too, when there's no prep...

[andrealyn]

Typically, in a first-time situation, then yes, I expect there to be a condom involved unless they're aware of blood-test results. Meanwhile, in my Big Bang, that sort of thing doesn't matter because when you're immortal, STD's aren't really your biggest concern

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I'd guess not XD

[megaranight.livejournal.com]

I think it would be more in character if they use a condom, especially Steve, who's military and even in action, thinks about safety.

However, we know that Danny didn't use a condom with Rachel, when she's married with Stan, which is pretty irresponsible.

Besides, I don't know how many time Steve bled all over Danny, so if he was ill, Danny'd catch it already.

That's said, if I'm perfectly okay to write condom-free fics in supernatural fandoms, I'd say that as our fics are not safe-locked, that anybody can read them, including gay teens, it's better to remind to readers that condom is not an option, it's the only way to protect oneself.

[cmariad.livejournal.com]

I DELETED & REPOSTED THIS TO FIX A SPACING ISSUE... SORRY!

With all due respect, we DON'T know Danny DIDN'T use a condom with Rachel. Especially since, like in many fics, it WASN'T specifically mentioned either way whether they used condoms, or anything else, or not.

Danny COULD have used a condom with Rachel & it COULD have failed/had some unseen imperfection in it, resulting in her pregnancy/alleged pregnancy (it may still turn out that Rachel was just saying she was pregnant to get Danny out of Hawaii so he wouldn't be able to help when the rest of Five-0 finally imploded & Steve & Kono were taken in to HPD for their alleged crimes, or that the baby is Stan's & not Danny's).

You CAN use birth control--even the methods that work 99.99% of the time--& still become pregnant; many people have. Even the types with the highest percentages of protection (or whatever you call it) sometimes fail, resulting in pregnancy.

As for the whole "condoms or no condoms in fics" discussion... When I've written fics, both in H50 fandom & my previous fandom of The West Wing, my OTP in each fandom has always been in an Established Relationship in the course of my fics, so I haven't specifically mentioned condoms, as such. It's up to the reader to decide if they're still using them or not--but I ALWAYS intend for the characters to be behaving safely when they're together in sexual situations. I know, "BAD Writer" (sorry).

The only time I feel it MIGHT be necessary for an OTP in an Established Relationship to use condoms, though (& I'm sorry if this opens ANOTHER can of worms), is IF there's a chance that 1 or both partners believes/knows that they might have been exposed to something sexually-transmissible (like HIV, say through blood at a crime scene... which happened to a character on CSI: NY, oddly enough when Peter Lenkov was Executive Producer for that show) &/or if the couple is waiting for test results to confirm whether or not 1 or both tests Positive for whatever they might have been exposed to. That's pretty much the way they've always been used in "Established Relationship" fics in whatever fandom I'm in--the couple believes/knows 1 or both partners has/have been exposed to an STD/HIV &/or is awaiting test results to confirm their exposure/non-exposure.

I agree, though, that in a "first time" fic, there should be either use of condoms--at least for penetrative sex--OR there's a sexual history/last HIV test results discussion/other discussion which negates the usage of condoms (or it's clear that it took place "offscreen", as it were, if no condoms are mentioned as being used). However, I haven't yet written a "first time" fic, myself.

I also agree that Steve & Danny don't seem like the type of men who would be sexually irresponsible, as far as taking "safe sex" precautions, if/when they felt they were necessary in that area. I mean, Danny's whole "thing", at least when Steve's being reckless in the field & getting him & the rest of the team shot, etc., is about staying alive for Grace. If he's so about staying alive for Grace, I can't see him being reckless sexually, even with Steve; at least not until & unless he knows his partner well enough to know there's NO risk involved or it's SO minimal as to be infinitesimal & WAY BEYOND HIGHLY UNLIKELY he'll be exposed to anything sexually. (I hope that makes sense)

[verasteine.livejournal.com]

I'll read either, but if you want to stay in character, especially Steve strikes me as someone who would think about the risks upfront. I do know of readers who say it detracts from the romance, and don't like to read it (I posited this exact question in a different fandom years ago) but personally, I think it's more realistic. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but they're both grown men and cops to boot; they'd use a condom.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I've heard about the 'distracting from the romance' aspect of it, but I guess it's so ingrained in me that, to me, it doesn't? It's just part of the 'let's have buttsecks' process, and it can be hot, too ^^.

[theeverdream.livejournal.com]

I agree with everybody that they totally would. However, I *do* think that there are some stories where it works if characters don't. I like reading stories where characters are still themselves but perhaps exaggerated a little. So take some possessiveness and arguing and everything, turn it into a fistfight leading to random surprise first time sex and then if a condom were not used it would make sense in my mind in the context of that story and the feelings of passion/abandonment/etc.

I also really, really hate it when condoms just so happen to be in a character's pocket/desk/etc, and it's like where did that come from? Why is he carrying around condoms and lube and everything? (Sometimes characters are planning for it but if they're not it's like, okay, Cargo Pants of Magically Holding Whatever You Need Ever?) I'd totally rather them just rub off on each other or whatever (not that that's a kink of mine anyway *cough*) and have the author forgo the magically appearing supplies (but not decide to have condomless penetrative sex).

I've read lots of stories where one is not used or mentioned and it doesn't really throw me out of the story or anything too badly but I do have the moment of wondering before I continue, for sure.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Ahahah, well I can believe someone would carry a condom in their wallet, but lube, yeah, it's always more of a stretch. I enjoy frottage a lot, too, so I'd rather revert to that solution...