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[delicatale]

An article about fanfic that isn't derisive, but actually well researched and developed, on both sides!

Read, let's discuss! I find all of this entirely fascinating, had a conversation with shinysylver yesterday about it, already. LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT WE LOVE, FRIENDS: FANFICTION.

Comments

[shinysylver.livejournal.com]

I thought the article was very well done. You could tell he wasn't judging the community. I love that he created an LJ just to talk to us about it too.

The only thing I wish, is that he would have had more space and would have made clear that most fans respect the wishes of the authors who say "no" even if we don't agree with them.

I also understand why Harry Potter got the focus, because it is so massive and the general public can relate to it, but I would love to see someone with his status as a respected author to actually do a much longer discussion of it than Time would allow. They could delve into a lot more.

His line about the sex pollen cracked me up!

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Liked that too - it was respectful of fic writers. I had to go home as soon as I was finished so I didn't realised he made a lj! I'll have to check it out.

It'd have been awesome to hear about more than mostly HP, but it's so engrained in the world - especially these days, and the fic is so huge and encapsulates so much I get why, in an article like that where as you said he can't really expand, it's a good example to use. Maybe he'll use his lj to delve deeper!

[shinysylver.livejournal.com]

He actually used his lj to interview us for the article. somehowunbroken linked me to it when he was asking the questions. He had five questions up and we all responded. That's what he used as the basis of his article.

If you want to look at some of the responses and such it is here:

lg_interview

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure he's done with it now.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_thelostcity/]

This article is absolutely fascinating. It's too bad he didn't have more space to use :/ I don't really know what else to say, though I've definitely had a friend mention fanfic and how she thought it was weird and stupid. Naturally, I failed to mention that I write it and just kind of smiled and nodded.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I am lucky that both my best friends are in fandom - then again this is where we met so you know. My other friends know I write, and that I'm passionate about it, but I understand what you mean. I'd probably try to explain though, because I definitely don't agree that fanfic is stupid, and there are lots of ways to explain it!

[shinysylver.livejournal.com]

I apparently have no shame. All of my friends, my parents, and my brother all know I write fic. My parents ask me about it and have even read a bit. It's so cute, my dad asks me about the drabble competition when he calls. :D

The people in my life don't always understand but they love me anyway.

I don't of course tell everyone how much of my writing is porn...

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

My family knows I write, too, just not fanfic. They supported me through my first NaNoWriMo though ^^.

[verasteine.livejournal.com]

I liked it over all; caught an inaccuracy, but I'll forgive him that one. Wasn't too happy with the ending because he spent a lot of time on authors who didn't like it but almost no time on those who don't object (say, Neil Gaiman) or on the arguments of the fan community with regard to emotional ownership. I know it's a really short article and he probably didn't have the space, though.

But hey, one of the best mainstream media articles on fanfic out there, I'd say.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

It'd have been nice to have more of the authors that embrace fic, true. But he talks more about fanfic and what it means to us than to the authors really, which is what I liked. The emotional ownership, I did not think of that (even though wow I am emotionally involved). It should have been an argument, definitely.

[gunslingaaahhh.livejournal.com]

what a brilliant article! and i love that some of the people interviewed write professionally, as well as writing fanfic.

i knew anne rice was against fanfic, but i hadnt realized that george rr martin was against it, or ursula le guin. i can see their points, though, you know? you spend all this time creating a character/story/scenario, tell the story and put it out there, then someone comes along and throws that to the wind in order to use your characters for their own devices.

however, as a fanfic writer as well as an author, i can say that in a way they should be flattered. the characters we borrow are so well loved and so cherished that we cant let them go; we want to expand the world they live in and open it up to people who might not have understood what the big deal was before. it isnt like the originators of those characters arent getting them back, and it isnt like most of us arent disclaiming our stories. we know who has the legal rights to the characters we play with.

idk what im saying but this article was great, really well written and researched. thanks for linking! <3

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I agree with this! And I didn't know about George r r martin either - it amused me because my first thought was 'your characters are like your children, why do you keep on killing them?'

[gunslingaaahhh.livejournal.com]

i saw your tweet about that, yeah. its a good point! although, considering how MANY characters -- er, children -- hes created, id be killing them off too, just for the sake of sanity. writing so many people is just... ugh it gets annoying. and im guilty of the "oh they bore me lets skip their parts" thing. whoops!

its nice to see someone be objective and unbiased about fanfic and people who write it, too. like that we arent all pornographers or dudes living w/ mom or whatever, because that is the common misconception. a friend recently told me she knows i write fanfic and at first i was embarrassed, like "omg this girl thinks im a freak" but she was totally whatever about it. idk if she READ any, of course, but hey, no snot out of my nose.

[gossy16.livejournal.com]

Very cool article, thanks for linking it!

I like the final quote, about ownership and lack thereof. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but I love the idea that you can't own people, fictional or otherwise. It rings very true to me.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Authors can think they do own their characters, but in the end, if they release them to the world then implicitly they offer them up for others to love them as well, and after that, it's kinda out of their hands...I get some of authors' arguments - although I want to slap Anne Rice around all the time...

[gossy16.livejournal.com]

if they release them to the world then implicitly they offer them up for others to love them as well, and after that, it's kinda out of their hands

Could not possibly agree more! It's hard for me to understand authors who oppose fanfic so staunchly. I can empathize of course with feelings of "but.. my babies!" and all, especially considering some of what the fanfiction community will, inevitably, inflict on their characters. The instinct to protect is a powerful thing, but authors also need to realize that if we hold their universes as sources of inspiration, we remain adamant that their word is the be-all and end-all of canon. I think if they were able to grasp that, a lot of these authors' objections could be laid to rest. I mean, it's not as if anyone were claiming to TAKE OVER FOR them. XD

[gyri.livejournal.com]

Wow! This article was exceptionally well-written. I'm really glad to see the culture and idea of fanfiction getting attention.

I can see both sides of the copyright argument, but I tend to agree with Maltese: nobody can own fictional characters. Not unless we intend to make money from them, which is a separate issue.

In the end, I think fanfiction, like imitation, is the sincerest form of flattery. The writers/creators who balk at fanfiction really ought to stop and consider what would happen if nobody was invested in the universe they created or loved their characters. Rowling and Meyer got it right; others should follow their example.

Speaking of huge fanfic followings, too bad this author didn't mention the Xena: Warrior Princess "crossover": one fanfic writer had created an AU with the Xena and Gabrielle characters, and had published a number of books. She caught the attention of the show's producers and was asked to write a screenplay or two for the show. How's that for a fanfic writer's dream come true?

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know. If you create a character, imo it's yours. If you decide to release it into the world, and it becomes popular, then you can't blame those who love said characters. That's my point of view.

[witchy99.livejournal.com]

This was really interesting. A lot of what I've read regarding fanfiction has been bad - copyright issues, people who don't respect the author, etc. I don't think it's like that. I know a few fandoms where the producers and writers of the show/book are pleased with it. They think it's great that fans embrace it so much that they want to do more.

I know I was REALLY nervous when I wrote my first fanfiction, and my disclaimer was SUPER long. I'm not sure whether you can own a fictional character or not - I don't believe so. I think it comes down to respect - for the show, the characters, the background - and as long as there are disclaimers and people don't write fanfiction when the authors say "no" then... Why not?

Thanks for sharing :) !

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I've never been really nervous about fanfic, because I've always felt I'm just part of something bigger, you know? The only thing was RPS at the beginning, because well. It's a little different...

[witchy99.livejournal.com]

See, I started posting fanfiction when I was still in grade school so... I was little and still unaware of how things worked. I get what you mean with the RPS though, it is different dealing with fictional characters than real life ones.

[sanguine2.livejournal.com]

wow , awesome article and awesome comments!

a friend of mine is a few months away from presenting her Ph.D. thesis on fan fic and the communities it generates- we haven't heard the last of this-trust me!

I totally agree with gryi- it seems the anne rice's and george rr martins of the world should be thanking fanfic writers instead of banning them.

Come on guys, it's true ! Imitation is the finest form of flattery-

That your characters are re- written thousands and thousands of times says thank you , I loved them,

It doesn't ever say, goody goody, I think I'll steal these for my very own .

Without the framework and genius of the original author, fan fic characters are nothing. The multiple (yeah, go figure, sometimes tens of thousands of) hits some fanfics receive, are outright bravos and thank you's to that writer.

I go to the National Gallery of Art, often, for about a bizillion reasons. One thing I really love is to watch incredibly skilled artists set up their easels in front of a masterpiece and slowly , skillfully try to copy it.

It's always just a 'try' - none of them are going to get it right - not the way Renoir or Michelangelo did.

But each try is a nod to the master- not a under the table grab, but, an awed nod.

I'm not saying the original creations that our crazy little blurbs try to capture are masterpieces- of course not . But, they are compelling characters and the McGarrett's and Deans we write are are just honest attempts to recreate and explore them.

Writers should be complimented, not threatened.

Whoa- nuff said.

Love this dialogue- hope it continues !!!

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

Maybe the writers who don't want fanfiction don't want these hits to go to fanfic authors, but to them?

I mean, I would love if every author was happy with fanfic, but we can't blame them either for their reticence/fears/doubts.

Also, I'm not sure the painter analogy works so well, knowing that there are con artists and people that manage to reproduce these paintings/sculptures/bonds/anything. You can't do that with a book, you can only take from it.

[cmariad.livejournal.com]

Very nice article. Thanks for sharing.

I'm not really into that fandom but I've read/heard that the author who writes the books that the Rizzoli & Isles series (airing on TNT in the US) is based on is an author who has absolutely NO problem with fanfic based on her charactrers. I think she said so on either her website or in an interview. I can't remember where, but I think I was led to wherever she said that through either an entry in 1 of the LJ Friends lists I read or through a link in the Rizzoli & Isles discussion thread on Television Without Pity. Just a For What It's Worth.

As someone who's written in the current Hawaii Five-0 fandom (more than 5, but less than 10, stories so far in the Steve/Danny pairing--I wanna write more but am stalled out, unfortunately, at the moment; I have ideas, or at least 1, but it goes crappy on me when I take it outta my head & write online), I'm interested on how Peter Lenkov, et al connected with the show see the whole fanfiction thing as it relates to their show.

I'm particularly interested because, if you think about it (though maybe you have to do so in a bit of a "skewed" way), the current Hawaii Five-0 is, perhaps, actually a bit of Peter Lenkov/et al "fanfiction" based on the original version of the show/characters, which were originally created by the late Leonard Freeman. He took Freeman's characters & setting & "reimagined"/updated them & is writing the stories now. Isn't that what the article writer sort of described "fanfiction" as?

At least I see it as such. And Lenkov has actually stated in interviews that he was a fan of the original show while growing up, so I'm not sure my assertion that Hawaii Five-0 (2010-?) is a form of "fanfiction" based on Hawaii Five-O (1968-1980). And I would like to know what Lenkov, et al, think of fanfiction based on these characters, as such. Hope we get to find out someday.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call the H50 remake fanfic, but it makes sense, I see your point! Especially since I was part of a group of people that wrote a Dark Angel season3 series of fanfics where we took it where we'd have liked it to go. However, the characters, despite having the same names, are different from the old H50. But I definitely see your point here ^^.

I think Lenkov doesn't have a problem with fic. I wouldn't know for sure, and I definitely wouldn't be asking him, but it's my personal belief that he quite likes it, in a SPN kind of way XD.

[alamo-girl80.livejournal.com]

Isn't it the most awesome article EVAH? I mean, over the mumble-someodd years I've been in fandom and have actually written fic, I've never seen a "professional" article about fan fic that didn't make it sound like fan fic writers weren't some side-show freakgasm, doing illegal shit because we aren't creative and cool enough to make up our own characters.

When I'm really sitting there saying, "Dude. I have read ficcage that is better than half the published shit out there, GTFO."

I have talked to TV peeps who didn't like that their characters were put in situations they didn't prove of, specifically the creators of Num3ers not liking all the brother incest fic, and hey, I can't blame them. But they weren't homicidal about it.

I also can't understand authors of those TV novels - the once base off TV shows like Monk and the CSIs - saying their work isn't a form of fan fiction. They didn't create the characters nor the world they live in, they're getting paid to write original stories about someone else's sandbox. HOW is that not fan fiction? Because they're getting paid? On author, Goldberg, is a tool about it on his website, trashing fan fiction and saying that his novels are not such drivel.

But you are so right, once the characters are out there, you're offering them up for your fans to play with. Are we really stealing the food off these author's tables? Hell no.

I think Lenkov likes anything that feeds the popularity of his show. I think he's pretty okay with fanfic, just from the fact that I've seen him praise people for many fanworks photo shopping things and sending them to him.

[delicatale.livejournal.com]

I can imagine that incestuous pairings aren't going to be a show creator's OTP. Although, Kripke...

Such drivel? Oh wow, excuse me dude. That makes me really angry - people saying we don't have the same value because we're not getting paid for it. That's absolutely ridiculous. So many people I've read have the talent to be published...

Yeah, the fact that he pushed fanwork into the spotlight by retweeting it and stuff tells me Lenkov is pretty lenient when it comes to this. I'd love to talk to him about it, but I know it's not going to happen ^^.

[alamo-girl80.livejournal.com]

Oh believe me, when I found this Lee Goldberg guy's website, I really wish I hadn't. Total and utter TOOL. And other people got in these long, drawn out comment wars with him about fanfic, and I don't remember if anyone just really pointed out that he was writing fanfic himself or not. I stayed away from him like the plague after that. And I've read a couple of his novels, NOT ALL THAT!

I love that I've read fanfic from published authors. It's so awesome and affirming somehow.

I wouldn't be surprised if people who work under Peter have read a bunch of the H50 fics out there to see what the fans are doing (and really, we're all having Steve do Danny, it seems LOL!) and telling him about it. He's very very anal about the "image" of the show, from what I've learned, so I know he's really into hearing what the fans are saying. I doubt he's actually taken time out to read fic himself, but it'd be awesome if he did.

[caliecat.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for sharing this. It's the first reference to fanfic I've read that didn't make me feel like a freak or compare me to a pimply teenager living in his mother's basement. I'm saving this so I can whip it out in my defense if my fannish activities are ever outed.